The Odyssey Gets The Bro Movie Treatment

We rate Christopher Nolan’s The Odyssey with a hard-number score, then argue about whether the film finds a real point beyond the hype. We end up in a bigger fight about adaptation, missing gods, sidelined women, and why culture war takes make everyone dumber.
• opening banter on pressure, fandom, and why the show relaxes us
• quick detour into Vampire the Masquerade and why brooding fails fast
• our three-part plan: stars, meaning, then inserting ourselves into the film
• drink check, heat dome misery, and toasts to new VPN locations
• acting breakdown, including standout performances and roles that drag
• cinematography debate on muted color palette, blocking, and uneven effects
• score reactions, theater mixing, and what sticks after the credits
• plot talk on regret, shame, depression, and what Nolan changes from Homer
• disagreement on Odysseus as clever hero vs dude who bros through
• Athena as goddess vs PTSD metaphor and what that does to the story
• culture war chatter about casting, bots, and real-world takes leaking in
• missing gods, missing comeuppance arcs, and what we wanted to see
• Troy comparison and why rewatchability matters
• our self-insert pitch: Dionysus everywhere and Hades ending the Tom Holland problem
3.5/5 Stars!

Transcript

Stress Relief And Medium Stakes

SPEAKER_03 0:15

A lot of this I find uh I find this show to be very stress-relieving. Yeah, I'm glad. It stresses me out. It stresses you out? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

I have a duty to the people to get to get this right. That's true.

SPEAKER_03 0:35

That is true. I may maybe one day I'll take it. Maybe one day I'll take it as seriously as is deserving.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Um, but for right now. I have the I have the weight of the kingdom hanging on my shoulders. It's try to try to forget, sit for years trying to ease the pain and forget.

SPEAKER_03 1:00

Look, we have dozens of fans, not to mention one-third of Thailand. Uh stakes are medium. I mean that's an insult to our uh one-third of Taiwanese listeners. But we do it for them. We do it for them. And uh, you know, here we are. And eventually I'll give this the gravity it deserves. Until then, I find it I find it very stress-relieving to just chill for a minute. Good. Yeah, me too. Uh so hey everybody. Welcome to High and Dry Podcast. I'm your host, Ryan Barron North. With me as always, James Crosslin. We, of course, are the only podcast keeping alive the fandom of Kindred the Embraced.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Oh, that was the Vampire uh TV series that was what, like six episodes or eight episodes or something?

SPEAKER_03 1:56

Something like that. But uh it was just a test, it was an early testament to the fact that uh White Wolf and Vampire the Masquerade um needs to stay in its fucking lane.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:12

And just yeah. It was it was god-awful. It lasted seven episodes um about a San Francisco cop who investigated crimes, but it evolved to focus on a gangster, Julian. But Julian was the head of the local vampire population. And both men had a relationship with the same woman who dies. The men form a weird bond.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Um well, when you Eiffel Tower, you know, you there's a connection made that just can't be broken.

SPEAKER_03 2:42

No, yeah. It uh electricity passes through the fingertips as you guys high five. It's uh it's a spiritual experience, really.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Honestly, so uh that's funny that you bring up Vampire the Masquerade because uh recently on Dropout, I don't know if you've heard of Dimension 20, they do like DD plays mostly, but they're one of the live plays on online for tabletop role-playing. And they they did we just did a vampire the masquerade

Vampire TV Detour And Tabletop Talk

SPEAKER_01 3:10

season. And it's it's it's it's not dark and broody like uh like so many of them are. It goes, it it like immediately goes off the rails with cracking jokes and shit like ours always would. Yeah. Yeah, it's like it's all cracking jokes and people people just doing the absolute craziest shit. It was really fun watching.

SPEAKER_03 3:32

The just the premise of what Masquerade has become is ridiculous. Like, how does this goth poetry slam affect the geopolitical situation? Like it it is turned it it's nonsensical. But anyway, we are not here to jump into that. Um you can join that on our other podcast, High and Dry, The Embraced, and listen to that. But here we're gonna be discussing this week the film The Odyssey, uh Nolan's newest outing. And we're gonna do it in a three-part method, guaranteed, to get you results. All right. First, we're going to rate this thing out of five stars. I know right now there's a lot of hype about it. Everyone's trying to put in their ten cents about just the latest culture war. Um, but is there a war about this? Alright. There was. But what we're about to say right here is definitive, it cannot be argued, and everything before and after is wrong. Then we're going to dive into the golden path and get you the uh and figure out like what the meaning behind this film, what he was trying to say, whatever that was.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

And then finally I don't think there is any further meaning.

SPEAKER_03 4:50

Uh there was in the Odyssey. I don't know if there was in Nolan's The Odyssey, but uh the Odyssey itself. Um and finally we are going to insert ourselves, drugs, or alcohol, into the film. But what makes it so special and fun is that we are going to be doing it under the influence of this or that. So, James, what uh I know that you uh were picking something up right on the way here.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

I wasn't picking it up, I was brewing it. So I did a double espresso iced coffee because it's muggy as shit. It's hot on the West Coast right now. We got that wet bulb, humidity's we have we have we're in a heat dome with a storm off the coast, and it's just like flooding us with humidity. It's like a swamp. Uh, and so I'm like, I desperately need something cold. And so I've got double iced coffee.

SPEAKER_03 5:43

Nice, nice. We get the we got the same kind of situation going on over here, but this place is always a fucking swamp. Um but I will be joining you with Wild Turkey 101. 101 horsepower.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

And I will be. That was an introductory course. I'm guessing not.

SPEAKER_03 6:04

It's just it's just 101. And I'm gonna be taking it out of the high and dry podcast shot glass.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

Oh, look at that!

SPEAKER_03 6:11

Ah, blast from the past. So our first toast, first hit, this one goes out to our newest listeners. Um, we had some really fun VPNs. Uh first we got Cheetah of the Transbical Territory. Weekend.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Oh, trans- Oh, Baikal. Oh, okay. So like transition.

SPEAKER_03 6:34

Um, well, they've been they've been sniffing around us for a while now, but they're a little distracted. They'll deal with us uh after uh Ukraine pushes them back fully. Uh then we have Brasilia, the federal district. We got Magerfeld of Mid Ulster, North Bergen, New Jersey. Exotic. Yes, yeah. The shores of Jersey, and then Grusenheim of the Haufrin.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

So that's interesting. I don't know that one. That sounds like almost like Norway. Yeah, a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 7:10

Cool. Yeah. Nice VPNs, guys. So cheers. Cheers.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

Damn, I make a good coffee.

SPEAKER_03 7:24

Tasty. And wild turkey makes a fantastic bourbon. That's great. Honestly, I I'm I I do not mind wild turkey whatsoever. It's cheap. It's a hundred-proof, 101-proof. And it doesn't have the uh ashtray taste of a lot of bourbons that are trying to be up their own ass.

SPEAKER_01 7:49

Yeah,

Setting Up The Odyssey Review

SPEAKER_01 7:50

like smoke smoked smoked bourbons. Yeah. You know what? Get your own smoker. They actually sell little boxes with a little fan. Oh, you got a little box of the fan, you put the wood chips in it like that.

SPEAKER_03 8:02

Yeah, you put the wood chip on, you light it up with the thing. I got uh I have cherry, I have vanilla, I got so many different flavors for it. Um I love making I love good. Oh, I like I love making uh like different whiskey sours or blood on the beaches and then lighten that thing up. But it it's nice.

SPEAKER_01 8:21

It's nice. It is nice, and you can taste the difference. A lot of people like I've seen in the smoke, like smoke meat, and in the meat smoking community, some people are like, I can't taste the difference. It's like, no, you can really taste the difference. If I if I do something with cherry wood, you can a hundred percent taste the difference. I just did some uh I call it Barbie Sue. Uh it's barbecue mixed with char sou, and it's got uh like very nice five, very nice. It's got like five spice seasoning on it, and I did some pork belly like that and did it with cherry wood, and it like gets bright red and so good. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 8:56

No, but I'm excited to do stuff like that. Um I want I want to smoke things and add flavor to shit.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

I decided to excited to smoke weed after being out of the military.

SPEAKER_03 9:11

I'm not not particularly. I've become such a uh drinker that I'm like, yeah, you know, like at my age, I I found my vices, and I'm like, do I really need another one?

unknown 9:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:28

I live my life stumbling from vice to vice.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

I uh you go through phases, all right? It's not that you you don't have to you don't have to do one thing forever. Just because you're really good at it doesn't mean you have to stick with it forever. Remember, Michael Jordan played baseball and people gave him shit for it, but he actually wasn't that bad. Like he was uh his his his RBI was not that bad. For for a person who hadn't played baseball since like being a teenager, and then he went right into being a professional, he had like point, he had two, he had two two something, and that means for every uh you know two and a half-ish pitches, he hit them, which is as a that's professional. He was he hasn't he hadn't played baseball since a teen.

SPEAKER_03 10:17

And you know, maybe I'll be the Michael uh like I'm the Michael Jordan of Bose and I'll get just small this call slip into weed.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

You can be the Michael Jordan of weed, but Michael Jordan baseball of weed.

SPEAKER_03 10:30

Yeah, the Michael Jordan baseball of weed. But then one day I return. One day I return and fucking just take title after title. Yeah, you take that.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

Give the liver a break for a year, see how you like it, come back.

SPEAKER_03 10:45

Maybe. Maybe. Yeah. Having options would be nice because I do not I do not want to take this world on sober. That's for goddamn sure.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

Turns out DMT is your is your advice.

SPEAKER_03 10:58

It actually smooths them out. Well, uh second so second hit. Uh this one. Uh well, here's two uh I guess uh figuring out what my Michael Jordan baseball drug will be.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

All the tech bros like ketamine. I don't know if that's the route I want to go. I'll just go with Zenpic. Yeah. Uh there you go. Or do you zen pouches?

SPEAKER_03 11:31

Yeah. I say what you want. Um, like people who are like it just gets you I have never seen people so addicted to something as I have those fucking pouches. That's because nicotine is incredibly addictive.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

It's just straight nicotine.

SPEAKER_03 11:49

Oh, they they're like, I see people like lose their freaking minds if they don't if they're out and it's like like, man, I uh you know, I uh don't have to drink. You have to have a Zen pouch in. Like uh well, um I hope everyone finds the help they need. So third toast, this one goes out to our film this week. Here is to the Odyssey. Cheers.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

It's nice to see an original idea in the theaters again

Toasts VPN Shoutouts And Vices

SPEAKER_01 12:25

instead of some recycled bullshit. Well I'm going back further and further in time for our IRPs.

SPEAKER_03 12:39

That's the all we got left. We're just gonna have to explore the past. So I was I was excited to hear what you had to say about this one because um you were always uh you were a big into the classics.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

Yeah, yeah. I've read the Odyssey multiple times. And the Iliad. I I I think that when I was younger I preferred the Iliad, but as an adult, I I prefer the Odyssey now.

unknown 13:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

I think for a lot of people it's switched around.

SPEAKER_03 13:06

So I've read them, I've read them each. It was it was required for me as a youth, and I'm very familiar with the stories and everything like that. But I I was anxious to to see what you thought about this one. I I had a lot of opinions. I saw it with uh you know, I saw it with my girlfriend Callie, and she is a big um Greek nut. And uh she left the theater pissed. Oh, she was pissed? Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

She was pissed. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 13:35

Well, let's she thought it was like if Homer had a brocast. Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

So here's what I'll say about adaptations. So I I this almost this almost belongs in the golden path. Well, maybe we'll loop back to it again or something like it. Uh, but it's good to preface this because you know you brought up, you know, you wanted to hear what I I thought as a as a classics nerd. Adaptations, and I don't mean this just for classics or the things that I like or whatever. Adaptations of other media into movies or or vice versa. Uh what I want to see is something that's good. I don't care usually if it's totally faithful to the source material. There's a certain there's a certain possessiveness that I've felt in the past about that. Like that I really want it like like no, you're missing the themes, or you're missing the uh, you know, this character wasn't there, and this I liked this character, and that character served a purpose. But you know, uh stories evolve. And especially in the in the idea of like Homer's Odyssey. It's a it's a Homer's Odyssey is a transcription of an oral tradition. Yeah, like like even there was a lot of dick sucking, yeah. Oh yeah, kill and Patroclus, woo, lots of dicks in the mouse there. Uh but it's and you can tell from you know, it's an epic poem, right? And you can tell from when you're reading it, uh, for those who haven't read it, um, or for those who have everyone listening right now, or or for those who have, you know, it's a good point to bring up, but there's like epithets. Um, you know, everyone has or eponyms, I mean, uh, like uh a Dawn with rosy fingers. Like it's it's it'd be like Dawn, comma with rosy fingers, comma. You know, it's in a positive. That's when you wipe and there's blood on the toilet paper. Yes, that's exactly right. Dawn's always having rough shits. They didn't have clean water back then. But uh, but everyone had like uh an eponym, and and you would repeat it so that people could keep track of the story as it was being told orally, so that you knew who was because all of these names get fucking jumbled after a while. So so it's just it's just clear that it's about the oral tradition and the and they also change over time. The stories change with the people who are telling them and in the age that they're being told. So I feel with adaptations, I I try to give them a lot of leeway. I try not to be really possessive about material and be like, you need this, you need that. Yeah, don't say this. Yeah, as long as the adaptation is good, like the Avatar live action adaptation, not the M9 Tramulon one, the one on Netflix. I do enjoy in Pandora. No, I'm talking about Avatar the Last Airbender, uh, the one on Netflix. I enjoy. Uh and a lot of people have said I don't like it. A lot of people have said they don't like it, but I enjoy it and I give it leeway for it. Because it's because it's what it is, what it is. It's an adaptation. That being said, uh, I enjoyed this movie. Generally, I enjoyed this movie. Um uh the acting specifically, I thought it got off to a bit of a rough start with the acting. At the beginning, I at the beginning I thought it was not good. At the beginning, I thought it was kind of stiff, uh, but I feel like everyone really loosened up as the movie went on. Um, I felt like I felt like um uh Tom Holland as Telemachus uh uh was was kind of stiff at the beginning, but uh but he really wait to rip into him. I thought he did better as time went on. Uh and and Robert Pattinson as as Antinist and Antonist. He's fantastic, but I didn't think he was good at the beginning, but he really opened up and he started. I I actually wish he would have gone. Like I'm saying I wish he would have gone more, but at the end, he was basically sneer, he was a sneering villain. He was a sneer, a sneering coward. It was pretty funny. It was almost a comic book villain. But uh for the most part, the acting was good. One thing that I really hated is they had Travis Scott in this fucking movie, and Travis Scott is a piece of shit. And although his his role was like meaningless essentially, he showed up for like just a few lines and he did not deliver them well. He delivered them for shit. And why would you give that why'd you why would you give that piece of shit money? That guy sucks.

SPEAKER_03 18:18

And and and I I think that that this this will come up for me at least in the golden path when we're talking about like the culture war that came off of this. And I I think a lot of Nolan's choices in hiring this actress or this actress for certain roles were fake. Because then he turns around and does something like that. And and it was just kind of like a further um understanding for me. Like the this is a brocast.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Yeah. Homer's brocast. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, this this

Star Ratings Acting To Plot

SPEAKER_01 18:55

podcast is also Homer's broadcast because Ann Hathaway gotta talk about how Ann Hathaway can get it. She can get it. Yeah, Anne Hathaway can fucking get it still.

SPEAKER_03 19:04

Yes, yes. Yep, yep, yep. But now as we're older, I'm more attracted to the fact that uh, you know, we built a life together and she's gonna fucking stick it out, fight for me, lie to all the dudes at the door and loyal stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:21

Loyal trad wife.

SPEAKER_03 19:23

I mean trad wife. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

Loyal trad wife.

SPEAKER_03 19:28

No, I definitely don't want one of them.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

Yes, we're we're we're joking, by the way. But not that she can get it.

SPEAKER_03 19:35

Yeah, that trad wife shit is creepy.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

Yeah. Uh uh the thing is she just didn't want to be with anyone else, which get, and that's good for her. And they should have respected her rule. That's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But uh, I thought acting in this was generally good. A few people took away from it. Um, I thought uh Mia Goth was really weird showing up, uh no eyebrows. Underutilized. Yeah, if they if you're gonna have her show up, have her do something. Yeah. I wish they'd given Lupido more time. She's all she's an amazing actress. Uh, but they we did get her, we did get her screaming at the camera when she was slaughtering Agamemnon. Good scene. Uh so for for acting, I'm gonna give it a four. And really, it's too bad that there were a few people that really brought it down. Yeah. I thought Matt Damon was also good. I do I do not think Tom Holland's the one who brought it down. I thought Matt Damon also did really well. Yeah, I thought Matt Damon was great. Yeah, Matt Damon was fantastic. Yeah. Uh uh Elliot Page, fantastic, especially when they brought him back from the dead to to to talk about, you know, uh Robert Pence and shame. I thought Elliot Page fucking killed it. Um so yeah, I'm gonna give it a four. Should be higher. If they took away some of the people who did not do a good job, uh it would have been higher. Cinematography. I think the cinematography, uh, I think I think a lot of people would give this a much higher score. I actually am disappointed if I was especially very disappointed. I'm disappointed in the s in the color palette of this movie.

SPEAKER_03 21:19

I what got me is everyone like I was even talking to my bartender at the movie theater, and they're like, I you know, it's supposed to be a really beautiful movie. And I walked in and it was entirely lackluster as far as the setting and the scenery went, and I like I was very unimpressed.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

The props department did a really good job, but the color I feel like the color palette didn't do the props justice. The color palette was so earth tone. Um it was so gray and beige.

SPEAKER_03 21:52

And uh like it was shot on the newest iPhone.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

It might have been. I I uh if I remember correctly, Christopher Nolan has used the iPhone to shoot movies before. So that may be the case. He's a bro. Yeah. But I I was I there were there are scenes that were good. You know, I I liked at the beginning, especially I felt like they did there was some bad uh blocking, like with um like having like being a little too far off from people's faces to see their emotions. Yeah, a little too far from people's faces. It's like, no, no, no, you gotta do you gotta get up on their face, Chris. You know this. I I I remember Dark Knight. You you you would you know how to film people's faces? Uh but uh but I I don't know if that was purposeful because over the course of the movie he did start zooming in on people's faces. I don't know if it was just uh I don't know if it was like the the kind of chaos of not of like being thrust into a story, like not being close to it, and then you get drawn in. Is that something he intended? Is it something he didn't intend? Uh I don't know. Uh but uh but it took me out of it a little bit. Uh I didn't think the CGI on the Cyclops was particularly good. Um and I I thought the the scene with the with the knights, I don't know, the the the the giant knights was really weird, and they were it was all right. Yeah, it felt really weird. The wide shoots, the wide shots and stuff on that were just like they felt I felt like they didn't do anything for me, and I felt that way on quite a few scenes, and so I gotta only give it a four. Which no, no, no, I'll give it a four point five because there were things that really stood out, like uh with Sylan Charybdis. Well, wait, wait, wait. Wait, wait, wait. A four point five. That's what I was gonna do.

SPEAKER_03 23:55

I was semi-perfect.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

The thing is, even when even when things draw away from it, like think about the scale of the movie, there were a lot of really good parts. But no, I'm I'm actually gonna take it down to four again. Uh so a four for cinematography for score. Um trying to think. The score for this one wasn't as bad as the other movie that I saw in theaters that like hurt my ears. Oh, backrooms. Backrooms is like mixed really poorly, and it was like it like hurt my ears. And uh this one wasn't that it wasn't like that. I saw it in Dolby, uh, and so maybe that has something to do with the mixing. I've heard some people say that the mixing is not great on it. Uh, but my theater was really good. Um, I felt like I felt like the score was pretty good. Obviously, not gonna be humming anything from it, but I am gonna give it a 3.5. Okay. Uh the plot, uh, the plot's a classic. And uh, you know, they combined quite a few scenes from the Odyssey, like the Lotus Eating, it was combined with uh with Calypso's uh the time on Calypso's Island, uh, as a with him trying to forget his previous life, right? Yeah. I thought Calypso was a missed opportunity. Yeah. There was certainly I thought it was okay. You know, Calypso doesn't actually take much up in the book anyway. I mean, it's part of a framing device talking about the rest of his journeys. Which that that's how it was used here too. But I I enjoyed how how with this plot it was really it was a story about regret and shame and it was about uh uh almost like depression. He he it's like it's like he had depression for years after abandoning his family. And I felt I felt that they really emphasized that. Like he had so many actions that he regretted and that he couldn't do anything about it until until he popped out of this stupor and took action. And uh and uh I felt like the plot was pretty good. You know, things changed for this adaptation, and I felt like they did a really good job. Um and so I'm gonna give the plot a I'm gonna give this a 4.5. I think this plot was really good. Uh and it I think that's one of the reasons I left the movie feeling that it was good, even though there were things that I didn't particularly there were some things I didn't like. Um and I will definitely watch this movie again when uh because Sherry didn't see it, and so uh I will definitely watch it again, uh, especially because I had to get up and go to the bathroom. Uh right around. I mean, it's a three-hour fucking film. Yeah, yeah. Right right around the time that they were traveling to Pylos. I was like, I can't hold it anymore. I gotta get it, I gotta get up. Uh so I missed a little bit of conversation with Anne Hathaway, so I was like to go back and see it. But anyway, I'd probably watch this movie again anyway. Yeah, I I did like this movie a lot, so I'm gonna give it a for free watchability. Okay. So let's see. So calculate. Four. Even four.

SPEAKER_03 27:27

Well, well, let me see what I could do to that. Alright, so for me, acting on this, um, there were a lot of very strong actors on here.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

I'd what'd you think about John Bernthal as Menelaus? Uh he was Punisher, the Punisher guy on the TV show Menelaus. It was like if the Bronx invaded the Greek Isles. This the Spartans the Spartans were like the Jibronis.

SPEAKER_03 27:58

Yeah. Of of Greece. Well, I I will say that I am happy that they did away with the fucking English accent that we always attributed to the Greeks for whatever reason. I mean, I'm really happy that they didn't go just like full-on uh Italian, because that would have been ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 28:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:19

Like, those people are ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

Mamma mia.

SPEAKER_03 28:22

Yeah, I'd be like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

Wrong culture.

SPEAKER_03 28:26

And uh, but uh I I'm also thrilled that we didn't go Greek either. So uh also a just a ridiculous people. And so I was happy god damn it. So I was really happy uh that we just we just talked, you know, just just it just just talk. And uh we did. So I I was okay with that because the whole giving us English accents to do classic stuff is is getting ridiculous. So put that shit to bed. It was really weird when Tom Holland kept calling him dad, though. That threw me off. Um, but that is definitely not the first thing Tom Holland did that threw me off in this film. Ann Hathaway, fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 29:17

Absolutely fantastic. Matt Damon fucking brought it. I I feel uh we we had a lot of uh of powerhouses on the screen here. Robert Pattinson, I thought was great. Uh me a goth underutilized, but even uh John Liguzamo, I loved. Uh like I thought I'd guys ammo was great. He did he did great. Samantha Morton did great. Ryan Hurst, of all fucking people, did great.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

Um you know who played a good shithead? Uh knock off Tom Hardy. Logan Marshall Green. He was Melanthius, he was the one who ran up to the storeroom. He played a really he did played a really good shithead. He always does.

SPEAKER_03 30:08

He always does. He I I'm like I I don't want to see like his unredacted police reports. But um, I Tom Holland. Um putting him like because we have seen him in movie star movies, um, where uh from his wrist is enough to like make us ignore what a shitty actor he is. And um when you put him in a room or a scene with professionals, Ann Hathaway in this regard, or uh Matt Damon when he's dealing with him, uh Robert Pattinson. Um when you put uh Tom Holland in a room with professionals, I could see it in his like, you don't know how to act, brother. You suck, actually. You're terrible. And uh I I feel like this movie really put that on full display because they put him next to so many accomplished actors. And then also uh I I never know how to freaking Zendaya, Zendaya. Uh uh everyone tells me she's awesome, but I've never seen anything where she's had a chance to prove it. And I don't think this was any different. Um, because and I'll get into this in my plot. Um, Athena was horrifically underutilized. That's true. And so, yeah, for that, Tom Holland. I thought she was fine. But like, yeah, but but so was like the chair in the corner of the room. Like he was put there appropriately and it did its job.

unknown 31:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:43

But Tom Holland dragged this thing down. Um, he's a miserable actor, and I will never forgive him for this. So for that for that, I will give acting in this film. I I have to like ask myself how much did Liguizamo, Ann Hathaway, and Matt Damon shoot it up. I give acting in this a three. Really? Yeah, I give it a three. Tom Holland was awful. Um, and and I I do have to um uh I do kind of disagree with you on Elliot Page. I I always find Elliot Page uh a little underwhelming. Like I I found him to be the worst part of Umbrella Academy. Like I like it it's always like okay, all right, let's just get through this.

SPEAKER_01 32:42

I don't think he was the worst. I think Umbrella Academy had a lot of problems.

SPEAKER_03 32:46

Uh Umbrella Gar, yeah, yeah. But like everything I see Elliot in, I'm like, uh and I I felt uh but but but Tom check go check out hard candy.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

Oh god. Yeah, I saw that.

SPEAKER_03 33:02

Have you seen it? Yes, I uh I'm good. It's a good movie.

SPEAKER_01 33:06

My rewatchability on that one's pretty low. But good movie. My rewatchability on Schindler's list is really low, but good movie. I'm not saying the two are equal, but the tra the traumatic nature of it hard candy Schindler's list. Same level, baby.

SPEAKER_03 33:25

But yeah, Tom Holland, uh, it's time to put his ass out to pasture, but that's not gonna happen. They're gonna drag him through everything for the next 10 fucking years. Uh cinematography.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

He'll be playing he'll be playing uh a 19-year-old in 2050. Telemachus was 20 years old or 19 years old.

SPEAKER_03 33:48

Uh cinematography here, uh like the things that you brought up, you you brought up a bunch of stuff, and like the things that you brought up are very distracting for me. I I I didn't like the scenery. Like, I I think I was just told how beautiful this film was gonna be, and I walked in and it was it was rather lackluster. I and I actually kind of enjoyed the Cyclops scene. It um it reminded me of like Saturn devouring his son the way it was done. Yeah. From uh Francisco Goya. And I that like in the beginning, I was like, oh, we might have something here because it was very horrific. I felt it was very claustrophobic. I thought that scene particularly was kind of well done. CGI on the Cyclops himself. Um but but the scene I liked the scene a lot, but then after that I just I stopped enjoying it. Um and like the yeah, when the Giants came, it was very bizarre.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

We don't have any I we don't have anything to learn from it. If you're gonna if you're gonna change if you're gonna add adapt things and change a bunch of things, please have us have it have meaning. You know, the the it's adapted from an oral story. It's you know, it's supposed to be like just a series of adventures, but if you if you don't give it an overarching meaning for a movie, it feels it feels like dead time.

SPEAKER_03 35:16

Yes, and and that's what I I felt a lot. And I'm gonna get into that, especially with Golden Path and uh what I felt this movie was missing in terms of what it was trying to teach. Um but but cinematography on this one, I'm gonna give it a three. There was nothing here, there was wild. Uh score, there were moments of it uh where I actually did appreciate the the music. I thought the end credits were horrific. I thought like as I was leaving, it like was uh this random kick in my ass as I'm trying to get the hell out of here. What was the ending credits music? Uh but there were there were I liked a lot of the score. Um so the score I'm gonna give it a four. Um plot, I I like so for me uh what was always about Odysseus was uh intelligence from conquering uh these much greater, much more powerful foes. Right. And but then he he just kept getting hit by his his hubris and his ego. In this, I I didn't see much intelligence. It was just a dude doing the next thing because that's what a dude does, and he like just broed his way through it. Um and I felt I felt that the plot lost a lot of its meaning. And like the the misuse of Athena, uh the only character in the story, to my memory at least, that wasn't completely beholden to um Odysseus, was just wrapped into just sort of this weird PTSD metaphor when she should have been her own character, and a very powerful one at that. And and I think um uh definitely women watching this might not appreciate that side of it. But I I I like the plot. I I wish they spent more time in the dog, that's obviously what I care most about. The plot was the I I give this plot a it's a classic plot. Uh I like the Odyssey. Just this particular one I felt missed a lot of the original point, and which is fine. It's an adaptation, as we've been saying, but then at least come up with your own point. And I just felt that that was lacking here.

SPEAKER_01 37:39

We'll definitely have to discuss that in Golden Path. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:42

So what were you thinking for rating? Uh plot, I'm gonna give it a 3.5. Uh rewatchability. I'll probably watch it once more when it comes out. I I won't be mad about it. And I'll I'll I'll definitely do it just to give it a better look, maybe. But yeah, rewatchability on this one. I'm gonna give it a two.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 38:07

Two.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

Let's go ahead and calculate. Beep beep beep beep bleep beep beep.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

Alright, it is 3.61 round down to 3.5. 3.5. Oh wait, I missed your I actually missed your um cinematography score. What was your number for cinematography? I think I gave it a 3.5. That's not gonna change it then. Perfect. Yep. 3.6 instead of 3.61.

SPEAKER_03 38:40

So there you go. All right, the Odyssey gets a 3.5, which respectable indisputable, indisputable, respectable, indisputable.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

It's not, it's not Nolan numbers, usually. But honestly, I'll tell you this. I often don't agree with critics with critics how they feel

Final Score And Nolan Hype

SPEAKER_01 39:05

about Nolan. Because I went into the movie and it was all like 10 out of 10, 5 out of 5, like Nolan did it again, you know, and it's like uh let me let me read Nolan's filmography really quick. And tell me if it if the if these movies you're like, these are so the best movies ever. So you got the Odyssey, you got Interstellar, good movie. Yeah, good movie. You got Oppenheimer, good movie. Long, long. You got Dark Knight, good movie. Good movie. Inception, good movie. It's good, it's good. That's the thing. None of the none of these things I'm saying are like best movie ever. No, no, it's a good movie. Teddy, good, not a good movie. No, Dunkirk, good movie. Memento like Memento. Couldn't tell you. Couldn't consider it a very good movie. Uh Batman Begins, good movie. Dark Knight Rises, less, even less good than Batman Begins. Yeah. The prestige, not my I mean, I thought it was like poor science. You know, some people really, really like that movie. Uh, but yeah, none of these are am I like, fuck yeah, like best movie ever. But critics like say best movie ever for a lot of this shit.

SPEAKER_03 40:24

But that that's the industry. That's the industry. He's he's on he's part of some fucking satanic uh child raping group that's out there. People are really up, like the critics are up his ass. And it didn't even make sense that this one exploded the way it did. But like what what really like and then I left, which is such an icky feeling because I felt like the females in this were just cast aside. Athena, the the powerful female of this story, was just nothing more than to hold his hand. And Zenday, I I feel like I I care for just as much as about Tom Holland. And um and then I walk into the bathroom when I was leaving, and it was a bunch of bros wearing the fucking sunglasses. This is 8:30 at night wearing sunglasses, those wide ass fucking new 80s sunglasses that are coming back out in the bathroom, and it's just a bunch of bros. And I'm like, this left me just so like ew.

SPEAKER_01 41:25

Well, those bro movies that I mentioned, none of those are women's stories, they're all bro movies.

SPEAKER_03 41:31

Yeah, it's all bro stuff, and I don't know. I felt like Odyssey deserved more than a bro story.

SPEAKER_01 41:37

The Odyssey was a bro book.

SPEAKER_03 41:40

Like well, we'll we're we're getting out of the golden path. We're getting on the golden path. We need to get a little further in there. It's time for our final toast. Here is two a respectable 3.5, which I feel is the rating of every Nolan movie I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_01 41:57

Cheers. From that list, the only one I've watched like more than a couple times is The Dark Knight.

SPEAKER_03 42:04

Dark Knight was is a solid 4 to 4.5. But I think it's Heath Ledger's fault than anyone else.

SPEAKER_01 42:11

Yeah. Yeah, Heath Ledger just had a uh a dynamic on fire performance.

SPEAKER_02 42:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:19

But anyway, so yeah, so let's talk about uh the lack of centering of women.

SPEAKER_03 42:24

Well well, but we're talking about like because you were talking about that it's an oral tradition and then it's supposed to take on, you know, the current. It's supposed to bring in our new values and everything like that. Sure. And a broad down isn't necessarily what I want to see from this, you know, especially when you have the goddess Athena locked in.

SPEAKER_01 42:47

Like, yeah, keep. Well, so did you feel like that was truly the goddess Athena? Because at the end they kind of flipped it on us. Yeah, there was Athena would have been the only god we saw in the movie.

SPEAKER_03 43:03

But they kind of flipped it on us, and all of a sudden they're like, wait, is it just his PTSD?

SPEAKER_01 43:08

Yeah, yeah. And that's that's what it is. You know, that's his that's uh, you know, Zendaya was a Zendaya was a priestess of Athena when Ajax raided the temple and raped the priestesses and destroyed it. Uh Zendaya was one of the priestesses, and that's her face, and it is his PTSD. And otherwise, otherwise we don't see any other gods. And so and so when you take that into account, then that's part of the adaptation because otherwise we would have seen all kinds of gods in the flesh, like Apollo is an Apollo shooting people on the fucking beach with the plague and shit. But we didn't, we didn't see that. We didn't see Neptune, you know, standing above the waves. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:54

But then but at the same time, it it was very clear. They made it clear that uh Poseidon's pissed. Um, they made it clear that these well, they I mean, it doesn't take uh 20 years to cross um Lake Michigan, you know.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

No, he said that he would he he admitted to being the C. People. He admitted to doing a bunch of raiding when he got back to uh Penelope. He said that they he said that he and his men were the sea people.

Women Gods And Culture War Noise

SPEAKER_01 44:25

The people from the sea who were destroying. Yeah, he he admitted to being a raider during that time. Yeah. And then and then he stopped, and then he stopped off for seven years with Calypso.

SPEAKER_03 44:37

Yeah. Well, and then even Calypso, I didn't like the way that they did that. Like the she she never let him go. Like, she didn't finally find a soul. I mean, she was just a fucking rapist. She was in the story.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

Like, I don't know. She was a witch, she was a demigod witch uh in the Odyssey, also. The thing is, this is a story about a man, and it's a story about a selfish man. But in in the in the initial story, like in the original, he doesn't learn anything. He doesn't regret like the Trojan horse, and he doesn't regret uh, you know, uh uh lying and cheating his way into victory. He he it's his greatest victory, he's proud of it all the way to his death, and he's proud of he's proud of every trick he's ever pulled. Uh and that's like the original story. And I actually enjoy that they they were like, actually winning at all costs and like by any means necessary is like not great, and it like it it it in itself shifts the paradigm so to make people care less about like honor and stuff. I find it, you know, one thing they also changed is that they were like, give Odysseus honor to begin with. Uh he wasn't that, you know. Yeah, he wasn't that from the beginning. But I do like the message where it's like we've we we have lost the honor of civilization. Yes, and and I was part of that. This story, like for forever, I'm part of the story that will live on that human that civilization has lost its honor. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 46:31

And see, I I think a lot of my I don't know, my thoughts coming into things these days, especially like with this one, where it was attached to this whole fucking nonsensical culture war, is your average fucking dude ain't gonna pick up that message. No, and it just feeds into this bullshit we're dealing with right now. Um wasn't for them, it was for me.

SPEAKER_02 47:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

No, I mean from that regard. I like Paul Verhoeven. I don't care if other people don't fucking get it and they can't handle it. I love him. He's my favorite director. I fucking love him.

SPEAKER_03 47:13

That's true. Well, what I what I particularly did not also like about this was that it turned into a goddamn left-right culture war on whether or not you like this movie because of the inclusion of certain actors into the film. And I'm like, all the way leading up to this thing, this drives me fucking insane, was everyone arguing about Elliot Page. Um, not to not to mention, you know, Lapita. And and Zendaya. Oh, I didn't hear Zendaya.

SPEAKER_01 47:53

Black people and women and trans people. Anyone who's not a white person, anyone who's not a white man, uh white cis man, there's someone's gonna have a complaint about. And then and then people are gonna have complaints about the white the other side gets to complain about the white man. That's like, guys, you just need to shut the fuck up.

SPEAKER_03 48:11

Yes. Well, the big war with Elliot Page was how dare you cast the greatest warrior, Achilles, by this trans man. Um, and then the left response to this was, well, historically, historically, of this fictional character, Achilles was always a twink, and that was the exact terminology I saw. Listen, and then you watch it, I'm like, guys, it's fucking Sinon. You're all fucking stupid. Can we please Can we please stop this?

SPEAKER_01 48:52

Please. It's mostly bots. Like this this shit is mostly bots. You gotta, you gotta get off the internet. You gotta, you gotta get it. I'm not on the internet. I am so like where did you ha where are you sitting in? Are you in like a coffee shop and people are like screaming the culture war at each other?

SPEAKER_03 49:11

I think that might be the case. I just no, no, I'm in Missouri. I'm in Missouri. And yes, I did hear these things from real people.

SPEAKER_01 49:22

Real people. Well, that's disappointing.

SPEAKER_03 49:25

Yes, and and then I then I see it because at first, like, I walked into this thing because of Missouri fucking morons thinking Elliot Page was Achilles. Going like, I don't care. I don't care. Walking into it though, I was glad first that it was sent on because Achilles holds a special place in everyone's Brad Pitney and heart, and would have taken away from the story by including Achilles. You you can't you can't include Achilles if you want to talk about someone else.

SPEAKER_01 49:59

I guess. I actually I really would have liked to have seen Achilles in this. I would too. We all like or Ajax. No, the thing is they got the thing is it would have added to the story. It would have I would have added to the story because it shows the consequences of like rage and ambition, and yeah, and it would have been like a a sequence of the people uh who were responsible for the Trojan War and what happened getting their comeuppance. And they kind of skipped that. We got to see Agamemnon getting his comeuppance, you know, in a brief shot. But Ajax, fucking the rape of the Temple of Athena, he I I wanted to see him slammed against what happened was he was like lifted by a type like a tornado, like a water spout, and then slammed onto a jagged rock and impaled. That's how he died in the Odyssey. And then um, and then uh Achilles, uh, he like in the in the uh Aeneid, like the description of him is remember, this is from an Italian point of view, and the Italians, uh the Romans trace their lineage to Troy, not to the Greeks, it's to the Trojans, and so they have like a different perspective on the Trojan War. It's from the tro the side of Troy and how they view the Greeks. And they they depict like uh Achilles as like having like having this snake tongue and like roaring over the uh the burning city of Troy and his his like serpent tongue lashing uh in the moonlit sky. And I was like, I want to see this, and then and then I want to see him get his comeuppance, you know? I wanted to see those things.

SPEAKER_03 51:40

I did too, and I I think that was my main problem here. Is that I there was so much missing from because we have cyclopses, we have giants, we have witches, we have all those things, but then for some reason we take out the gods, which in my opinion were absolutely necessary. They take up a lot of space and time. It was a three-hour fucking movie, make it four, who cares?

SPEAKER_01 52:07

Like, goddamn. Like, I remember those stories, like the gods, like there's a lot of scenes of just gods arguing, and like gods like standing behind people and being like they made his feet swift. It's like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 52:24

He did have some swift feet.

SPEAKER_01 52:26

That was I think that was I think that was Hector. I think that Apollo gave Hector swift feet to his fight against Achilles or some shit, and it's like, I don't know if we really need Apollo standing above and being like blew, and then his feet sparkle or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 52:44

I would have appreciated like let's go all in, let's just do it. Yeah. I don't know. I I don't know. I like with this just this epic of a tale, I I think that you know, some if something's gonna come out, I I it's hard to choose what. And you know, gods left out, this left out, whatever it was left out. I I just think that uh Nolan isn't capable of making anything more than that's a good movie. Unless Heath Ledger is involved. And um I I think that's just where we're at here. I uh because if if he included the gods, he would have to take out something else and whatever it was though, he has he has his thumb on something in the industry where whatever he puts out is going to be pumped full of this Hollywood psyop that is played on us if when they want something to make money. So I I don't know what particular satanic deity he's worshiping, but he's doing it, and he's doing it right. So good on him.

SPEAKER_01 54:10

Which do you like? Uh which do you like more? This movie or Troy? Troy. Yeah, me too. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:21

Troy's Troy's pretty great. I well when we got home, uh, well, the next day we put on Troy. But I'm still trying to like, but it's just on, you know. But but I keep finding myself like, hold on, hold on. I'm the fight's coming. I I gotta watch this. Like, I've seen it 20 times.

SPEAKER_01 54:37

Yeah but like hold on, hold on, I gotta see this. Yeah, the Brad, the Brad, the Brad Pitt, uh, the Achilles Hector fight is just just fantastic.

SPEAKER_03 54:47

It really is. It really is. But no, uh I kept getting dragged into it. Um like Troy has a 4.5 rewatchability easily. You know, you don't watch it every year at Christmas, but uh you do watch it. You do watch it.

SPEAKER_01 55:05

Uh and that was that was a story, that was also that was a story of someone getting their comeuppets for ambition, right? That was that ambition was their uh was their sin. And in this one, this one I I did really I think that it was a huge improvement over just a a literal straight translation of the Odyssey that Odysseus was getting his comeuppets for disrupting the social order through a lack of honor. I thought that I actually I thought that was really important. And and that's what I think that's why I gave this movie a a higher rating than you, I think. Yeah. Yeah, it was just it's just we

Troy Comparison Honor And Fear

SPEAKER_01 55:45

see dis dishonor is such a problem in our society today. The social order is is disrupted, where people are have a very the ends justify the means. Uh uh we you do not have to actually care, you do not have to think of the other people as having lives and and society and stuff. What you do to win is is it that's all that matters. And it's just um it has broken society. And it it it it doesn't and it doesn't just break society, so society breaking breaks the individual. We're so isolated now, even in, you know, one of the things about the one thing I wanted to bring up during Golden Path is that in in the movie, uh Penelope, you know, talks about her fear of the people from the sea, and we learned that Matt Damon and his crew were the sea people who were fucking raiding during that time and destroying societies. Um and and uh it's it's isolate, it's the fear of ice, it's the fear and what how we isolate ourselves during fear. That that part, it's a capturing of that, that fear of the sea people and having to make you you when you let the fear rule you and you isolate, you start to make concessions. And she's like, I have to, you know, I have to finally take a second to and put a task before these guys, because if we don't do this, we're gonna lose our, you know, we're gonna lose our kingdom because of the sea people. And and this fear was driving her toward this eventual, you know, it's time to it's time to to let the suitors have a chance. I might have to marry someone. And yeah, I thought that was a really good theme. I I do yeah, the theme really, really resonated with me. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 57:32

Which respectable. I get it. I understand. I like it. Well, it's time for the final piece then. It's time to insert ourselves into Nolan's theodicy. How does it change with the addition of James?

SPEAKER_01 57:52

So me first? Okay. So you were mentioning that you wanted more gods in this movie, right? Yes. So obviously, one god that has to make it in, Dionysus. And so I knew it. And so popping in, it's like we're at Dionysus is gonna be in every scene. It's gonna be me in the background, just chugging wine, like here, here, just bringing in these bundles of like herb. You know, these huge these huge marijuana plants, these huge cannabis plants. And uh, and every single, every single one of these meetings in a meeting hall is gonna be people getting absolutely fucked up. And that's gonna be like protecting Penelope, and that's gonna be like mate, it's gonna be a reason that Menelaus is so open about what happened to his brother and stuff, and it's all gonna be because of the the the the flowing wine and the flowing herb, and uh and uh same with uh same with like the uh the sire. It's same with you know they already had the lotus eaters and and the lotus and calypso. I'd be there, I'd be like, no, no, no, no, eat it.

unknown 59:09

Eat it.

SPEAKER_02 59:09

Just like lift it into his face.

unknown 59:13

Do it, bro.

SPEAKER_03 59:14

So your Greeks say it. Love it.

SPEAKER_01 59:19

In in in Circe's fucking hut, I'd be like, eat it, eat it, eat it, eat it, eat it, eat it. Eat it, eat it, you bitch. And then I'd get and then I'd get torn apart uh and my heart consumed. That's that's the that's the story of Dionysus, by the way. And I'd get reborn.

SPEAKER_03 59:41

So I yeah, I would insert myself also as a god. I'd be a god presiding over Nolan's thing here. Which god would you be, do you think? I I mean I I'd be unique. Uh I'd be unique. What would you I would be like? What's your thing?

SPEAKER_01 59:58

What are they called?

SPEAKER_03 59:59

Your uh my my my uh my pantheon. My purview, my purview. Um it would be fucking I mean, there'd be there'd be touches of the drink in there, but then also uh justice and wrath. And uh like I I would be Zeus's like cooler older brother that the Pantheon doesn't talk about, you know. Because I decided not to have kids.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:25

All of Zeus's brothers were older. He was the youngest.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:30

I'm the one who like wasn't locked up. Uh and I show up every once in a while and I still don't have kids and things like that, you know. And uh Yeah, but I'm not like condemned anywhere. I just cruise around on my uh my Harley.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:49

Hades could leave. He actually wasn't condemned. That's not part of the that's a common

Inserting Dionysus And Hades

SPEAKER_01 1:00:55

Hercules movie. The Hercules Disney movie fucked that up.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:59

So yeah, no, I I'd be Hades. I'd be Hades. And uh I I I I would I would come up on my uh my Indian motorcycle and that was on the shores, on the shores of the dead, you'd roll up.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:13

I just sucking red it. Just kick them with all that black sand, black gravel.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:20

And then finally, I would just fucking put my hands out and I would uh send a I guess because I'm not Zeus, so I guess I would send a bolt of darkness through Tom Holland. And so he'd just be dead now.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:34

And uh whenever you Slymakus is dead.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:37

And whenever you piss me off, I would like you dare defy me, and then I would send another bolt into Tom Holland's corpse.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:50

I can just imagine you like uh every every time a bunch of people die, and like they like when they're doing Sola Christmas, you're just like it has the thing as the Scylla fucking reaching out, and then just you and the on the rocks playing a guitar as fucking die.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:09

And he won't stop drinking. Like, I ain't doing classical fucking sober, you guys out of your fucking mind.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:17

The the the uh the uh uh polyphemus, the the um the cyclops picks up a guy, eats him, and then and then they're all they're all looking up by the fire, and you're just like, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:29

Hell yeah, dude. That was intense. Holy shit. And then I shock Tom Holland's corpse. Yeah, and uh that's uh that's how it would change. I would I would just be Hades raping through here and kill Tom Holland um ripping sweet guitar solos, cruising around on my own Indian motorcycle, you know. Um yeah, that'd be it. I I would definitely make Odysseus uh feel well like a lot of his his PTSD. Like uh I'm I'm definitely gonna I'm gonna appear as like some you know veteran of the Trojan War, and you know, I'm gonna drink with him and I'm gonna just take him through memory lane and I'm gonna make sure that he remembers that you can't just do shit to people and not feel it. And then I'm gonna shock Tom Holland's corpse and and uh there's gonna be this sick guitar solo as I fly back into hell. It's gonna be sweet Nice. Yeah, and that's it. So there you have it, folks. Um, I'm your host, Ryan Barron North. With me as always, James Crosslin, we're High Enjoy Podcast. Um Odyssey 3.5. Nolan, you make good movies. Good. They're good. They're good. Real good. I'm sorry, they're they're good, really. They're good. Really, they're good. They're great if you have Heath Ledger.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But is the only thing that can make a Nolan movie great. Man, I've been talking to people and they're like, no, no, I love Nolan movies. It's like, fuck. Really? Do you though? And and then they were like, I don't really like I met someone who was like, uh, yeah, I love Nolan movies. I don't like Spielberg movies. And I was like, what the fuck? Are you fucking kidding me? Spielberg knows how to Spielberg knows how to write a movie, knows how to pace a movie. Are you out of your fucking mind?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:38

He doesn't need Heath Ledger. God damn it, there you go. He's Tom Hanks.