Whiplash: Black Swan For the Boys

We get drunk and high, rate Whiplash, and argue about why so many people mistake cruelty for genius. We break down how the movie frames abuse as a path to greatness and why the “suffer for your art” mindset still messes up schools, work, and creative life. 
• Jackie Chan Adventures nostalgia and voice actor rabbit hole 
• Three-part review format and what we’re drinking and taking 
• Whiplash plot recap through a former band kid’s lens 
• Acting, cinematography, score, story, and rewatchability ratings 
• J.K. Simmons as a believable manipulator and why that matters 
• Predictable beats, trauma bonding, and the myth of necessary suffering 
• How hierarchies reward cruelty and teach people to imitate it 
• Why the ending reads as triumph instead of tragedy 
• Rewriting the movie by inserting ourselves and forcing accountability 
Follow us wherever podcasts are fucking free or whatever 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:15

To deprive the audiences of you at your readiest. Oh yeah. Without a doubt. Without a doubt. But I'm I'm ready to talk about some uh uh abuse in the educational system, so uh let's uh let's get to this. So uh hey everybody, welcome to High and Dry Podcast, the only podcast keeping alive the fandom that is Jackie Chan Adventures.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Now that one I for sure remember. Jackie Chan Adventures was great. Not internally consistent.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Nope. And I don't believe he didn't even give his voice to the thing.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Is that true? I'm almost positive. Yeah, I bet you're right.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

He did the intro, but I don't think he did the voice of Jackie. I am like 100% sure. Now I gotta check.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Well, it's it says James C was also Jackie Chan.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

It says Jackie Chan was Jackie Chan, but maybe that was just for the pilot.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

No, in the intro, every intro, you see a live-action Jackie Chan who then turns into Oh right.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

Yeah, that's the first one.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

So he walked in the studio in between rush hours and uh did a quick uh hey, it's me.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

There were a few great voice actors on the show. James uh John DiMaggio was Hok Fu for seasons two through five. Uh so Bender was in there. Uh you also had James Hong. We all know James Hong. Famous, famous character actor James Hong uh was was Dao Lan Wong for the show.

unknown 2:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

I remember it like it was yesterday.

unknown 2:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:06

Of course.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Well Clancy Brown? Clancy Brown was on the show. Uh hold on, Clancy Brown was Captain Augustus Black, and he was also Ratzo, and he was also Super Moose.

Format Setup And What We Took

SPEAKER_00 2:25

He was a wow. This is just um putting together. I never knew Adam Baldwin? That was Adam Baldwin. And as Finn, yeah. I never knew Adam. Like I knew Adam Baldwin existed because there's the Baldwins. I had just never moved. Different Baldwins. Not the same, not the same Baldwins. Okay, alright. Then we're good. That made no sense to me. Different Baldwins. I'm like, hey, how is he how is he a Baldwin? So uh he's not. He's not that bald. So the so the according to Hollywood Law, the Baldwins could never name a child Adam. Uh yeah. If they want him to be in the screenwriter's guild or anything like that. So uh they'd have to call him like Addy or something. Yeah, he's Addie. All right. Well, so we're not actually going to be talking about Addie Baldwin today. All right. Or Jackie Chan Adventures. All right. What we are actually going to be talking about this week is the 2014 film before he was elected, Whiplash. Um, we're going to uh do this in a three-part method, guaranteed you to get you the biggest podcasting bang for your podcasting buck wherever you get this free shit. First, we are going to give you the definitive rating out of five stars, uh, never again to be disputed by anyone, anything, any single entity. Unless it's us. Unless it's us. We're, of course, allowed that power. Um, then at any time, we're going to dive into the golden path and delve into the deeper meanings of this particular film. And finally, uh, we're going to insert ourselves, drugs, or alcohol into the movie. And what makes it so great, special, and fun is that we are going to be doing it drunk and high. So, uh, fellas, what are you uh what are you imbibing this week?

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Melons with a Z. You should be able to count on weed strains to have a Z instead of an S. It just neat. I am uh I've taken a bunch of lithium and uh dextromorphin. Uh, and also I'm gonna have some uh CBD.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Hell yeah. It does. And I'm gonna be joining you with this old granddad. Oh yeah, old granddad is 114 horsepower, so that's 57% alcohol by volume. Nice. It's a homage to Prohibition era bourbons.

Bad Ideas And Public Health Fears

SPEAKER_01 5:03

It cost me$24 trash. Made it's$12. So here there it is. Did you did you uh did you hear that they um are uh there's a concerted effort to remove the laws against creating home distilled alcohols? Yeah, they're about to die. Yeah, people are gonna die. Like there's a whole there's a reason we there's a reason we don't do it. It's because people would fucking go blind. Yeah, yeah. People will fucking put antifreeze in a sweetener when you don't regulate shit. It happens in Russia. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Well, here comes two, here's two the first shot, first test, first hit. This one goes out to our newest listeners. These ones are coming to us from Peter Lee Durham and Topahannock, Virginia. Okay. We also got one from Norfolk. We got a Toronto, so uh Ashburn's joining us again. Nice. Yeah, lovely. Well, cheers. So here's for them. Cheers. Cheers.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

Lord. Oh well, that's tasty. No. He made bad decisions for us all.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

Hey, no, if I if I don't sin and make bad decisions, he died for nothing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

So anyone else uh see that uh that that our uh president tweeted a uh generated image of himself as Jesus Christ today. Healing yeah, yep, yep.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Healing a man that looks like Jeffrey Epstein.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

Uh yeah, yeah. He had he had him and him in Jesus' robes and and red sash stand healing healing a man in a medical gurney. Yeah, yeah, pretty fucking wild.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Did you see that he responded to it? And he goes, Oh, he goes, he goes, I don't know what people are so upset about. I was I was a doctor, all right. I was trying to be a doctor, and you people just don't put any meaning on anything.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

He's never actually seen an image or iconography of Jesus Christ. If he was if you walk, if he ever walked into a church, he would burn and burst into flame.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

Well, here is to his eventual immolation, and here is to my eventual blindness in this period of deregulation on alcohol. Cheers, boys.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Cheers. Well, that's that's if you don't get measles first.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

Well, they require uh my job to get our vaccines.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

So vaccines are only effective with herd immune. You can still get measles. It's true. You can uh and that can make you go blind too. Well, I think blood blindness is really gonna pick up in the next 10 to 15 years. We're gonna see a lot more blind people. Well, this one is just like it's just we're all three of us are gonna be blind. So uh it's gonna be great.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

No, and that's I prefer to be mute. Luke, are you okay with deaf? All right, cool. We'll all help each other out.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

I feel that this having these issues is gonna push our art to the next level. And if we're just really toxic to each other, unforgivingly so.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

Yeah. That's the only way.

Whiplash Synopsis And First Reactions

SPEAKER_00 8:41

Yeah, we're here to create the next Joe Rogan, and that's the next uh only do it by gaslighting each other, hurting like all the things. All the things, yes, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, so I'm gonna like next episode I'm busting into one of your guys' rooms and like throwing shit, just saying, commentate harder. And that's gonna bring that's gonna bring up higher. So here's to that. Uh, and here's to our movie this week, whiplash. Cheers. Well, apologies. Whiplash. Sorry, I was doing that with bourbon. Bourbon whiskey. Yeah. Oh well, now that my voice is brought down to the proper octave off of old granddad, let's get this on.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

So someone here is is out of tune.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Well, my thing was like, in if I was like the fucking tuba, I'm like, when is he gonna focus on us?

SPEAKER_01 9:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, like you know, for for for all the racial slurs he did, they were only against people who were white presenting. I didn't hear him say the n-word one time. Unrealistic. I wanted to hear him, I wanted to see him shouting the n-word at those black kids. Jake, what I was there for, disappointed.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

Yeah, well, I mean, if he was being truthful about it, like, come on, man, like stick to your guns, do it. I dare you. I fucking dare ya, you know? So uh, yeah. Well, this was a movie. This was a movie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

You want to hear my thoughts first? Okay. So I was a band kid. Yeah, well, you're were you aware of that, Luke? Yeah, I was a band kid. I played baritone euphonium. Um, and so I was in the brass section. Shout out to the spit valve crew. They had that they showed it in the movie that early on. I was like, yeah, spit there, I gotta show in spit valves in action. Spraying all over the floor. I was like, oh yeah, it's that room's fucking reeks of instrument spit. Jesus Christ. So this movie, uh, for those of you uh so so I'll give a synopsis really quick. So this movie, for those of you who aren't aware, it's like a it's a pretty famous movie, uh, but I hadn't seen it until until uh I watched it. None of us I knew all the beats, though. Like I by through Osmosis, I knew all the beats of this movie. So the movie follows a uh young man who uh has entered into a musical conservatory that is supposedly like the best in the country, but they all say that.

unknown 11:28

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 11:29

And uh he enters in and he's like really driven, and the school is run. Like the the main conductor of the school is like this real hard ass who like uh who uh manip you know psychologically and emotionally like manipulates the students because he feels like it's important that it's what drives them to succeed. And uh and the story follows this kid and his struggles and and how the teacher manipulates him and eventually ends up where you know this kid like puts everything else out of his life and only focuses on the music and then to his self-detriment, to where he gets injured and and still wants to play and is unable to. He feel, you know, he feels like pushed to succeed at any cost, uh, and then has his opportunities removed and he snaps. Uh and and he's kicked out of school. He eventually runs into the teacher again, and the teacher manipulates him to get him back on stage uh in an in a trick to uh to embarrass him. Uh but but in the end, the kid comes back and embarrasses the teacher, and then they have like this show off of like battle of wills where they end up respecting each other, and at the end, there's just respect, respect for craziness, and that's the end of the movie.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

That's being manipulated that way. At any point, the manipulator could say, I knew I could get you there.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you if you if you succeed at what the manipulator was expecting of you, then the manipulator feels right. This is something, uh, just a little personal anecdote. This is something my mother has done to me my ever since fourth grade. Like she does this in so many parts of my life, but I have a very specific instance. Uh it it my my mother uh insisted that I take a typing class uh when I was uh when I was young, like keyboarding, like like typing on a key on a on a keyboard.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

So you it's good for your eventual career in stenography.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

Well, just just being used to typing on a keyboard, and uh and then when I and she all the time she was like, it's gonna come in, it's gonna come. And then I got a job as a software engineer, and she's like, It's because I made you type, I made you take that typing class, and I was like, that is a hundred percent not the reason. Fucking what the typing is like but she was like, she's like a narcissistic, like this this was the style that she took to parenting, and it like it totally lines up. Yeah, she feels justified, exactly. Looks looking for anything to be justified, and and you're right, that's the kind of thing narcissists do. And he's like, Yeah, I got you to that point where you never give up, despite me like slapping you in the face in front of your classmates. Uh, but anyway, where they were like, actually, actually, yeah, it worked. Well, well, all right.

Ratings Breakdown And Hot Takes

SPEAKER_00 14:22

So that was the synopsis. We'll get into all that shit in the golden path. I yeah, the golden path, we're about to fucking go off, apparently. We got a bunch of victims of that Gen X boomer bullshit, so let's see what happens.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

But anyway, acting, I thought the acting in this movie was really good. But sadly, this is the movie that gave us Miles Teller, and we had to put up with him for like until current day. Really not great, not happy that we have Miles Teller, but he did a good job playing like a um a uh stone-faced autistic boy. Um and I I really think that's because they're like, my dad says I have trouble making uh making eye contact, and I don't have you know, I don't really see the point of friends, I'm really bad at social stuff, and and like and so they tried to paint him as autistic, and like he his face never fucking changes. The this whole movie and throughout his whole acting career, his face never fucking changes. Um but but it was right for the part, I think. And J.K. Simmons, of course, was doing really good acting. He's a great he's a really great actor. Obviously. Obviously, Paul Riser was present.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

Uh yeah, yeah, he was there. He was there.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

He was there, he kept showing up. I would give this movie a 4.5 for acting, just because it was good drama. It was pretty JK Simmons brought the brought the drama, and he was a believable dickhead who felt uh who felt justified. Yeah, he was very hateable. I also hated Miles Teller, but I don't know if he was meant to be as hateable. Uh I also hated him.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Yeah, now you've heard it here first. Uh welcome to High and Dry Podcast, the only podcast where we fucking hate Miles Teller.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And all victims.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

Yeah. We just hate victims. We're yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Any victims of abuse, fuck you. What are you even doing? Uh so yeah, four. Why not for abuse? JK Simmons game brought this to a 4.5. Uh for cinematography. Uh I thought the cinematography in this movie was good. Um, I thought it was competent. Um, I'm trying to think of like any really, really special shots. There was a lot of like kind of like gritty or brutal shots that they had set up, especially when they were like bleeding on the drums and stuff, like and getting really tired and shit. Like the cinematography was pretty good there. I'm gonna give it a yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm gonna I'm gonna give it a I'm gonna give it a four for cinematography because it was competent and also I felt like it was really it was telling a story there. Uh for this for the score and soundtrack, I don't like jazz.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Yeah, I hope you like jazz.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

I don't I don't like jazz very much. Uh uh, but it was competently done. As far as jazz goes, this was better jazz than most jazz. Um, so I'm gonna give it a 3.5 for the score and soundtrack. Um for story and plot, I thought that the story was a lot of the times very predictable. I called, I like I was sitting there watching and I was calling out what was gonna happen before it happened uh pretty much the whole time. When he's like, Yeah, he got that way because so and so chucked a symbol in his head. I was like, he's gonna throw something in his head, and I was like, uh I was like, oh, you gotta be there right on time for this thing. And it's like, oh, something's gonna happen where he's not gonna make it on time. And uh, yeah, it felt uh and and the oh, you can get me on stage, and it's like, oh, that's gonna blow up. Like, this is bullshit. Oh, that the the like trauma bonding. Yeah, I uh yeah, I found a lot of these beats predictable, but also I've I've had you know uh osmo through cultural osmosis. So maybe that just did something about it, but for me, it wasn't the story and plot wasn't that amazing. We'll talk more about you know, this obsession with like uh being the greatest in the world for for something that's like inherently inconsequential later, like the like for a for a pos for a position that's like inconsequential. Uh we'll talk about that in Golden Path, but the story and plot, despite me being a band musician, didn't resonate with me. I've never had a conductor like this. I've played, you know, I've played in band at at two different levels of education and in uh in a you know a um uh an outside of education uh symphony, and it's uh never had a conductor that's acted like this. And uh and it's just wild. So for story and plot, I'm only that's right. Yeah. Well, to be fair, I'm not I'm no Miles Davis. So I'm no Dave Grohl. So story and plot, I'm only gonna give it a two. I don't think it was actually very good. Rewatchability. Uh I don't think I'm ever gonna rewatch this movie again. But if someone was like, I haven't seen this movie, I'd be like, oh well, it's worth a watch just to watch J.K. Simmons go ham, you know. Yeah, it's a real if you want to see JK Simmons, say some real racist shit, but not to black people.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

Yeah, no, it's very, very just to white people.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

So only to only only to Irish people and Jewish people. Uh well, check out this movie. Uh uh two, two for rewatchability. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

Alright. Uh well I'll I'll I'll if you don't mind, Luke, I'll I'll jump into this one before before old granddad sends me to the golden path prematurely here. So for me, yeah. Acting was acting was it was well done. But I I will say they were easy roles to act, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

Yeah? You think psychopathic conductor was an easy role?

SPEAKER_00 20:56

It is for me, at least, when I'm dealing with my people because it worked. So, but I mean it's I don't know, like I I felt like it was easy to play with. Um, and J.K. Simmons allowed that to be, you know, that like he you know he brought an easy role to the next level. Meanwhile, your favorite Miles Teller, he he made it. He he did the thing.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

Just over the bar.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

Yeah, he he hit what he was supposed to do. And so for that, uh, you know, it's like, hey, we pulled it off. We pulled it off, boys. And then JK, like, you know, he he he probably had to go to physical therapy after carrying this whole fucking movie.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

So yeah, his his his lower his lower coccyx was fucking destroyed. Yeah, just compressed. But a lumbar massager installed on all his chairs after this.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

So for that yeah, so for that I I give acting here a three point five. You know, because it wasn't the you know it wasn't the J.K. Simmons movie. You know, everyone was supposed to contribute.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

Were they?

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Were they yeah, everyone had to be involved. Uh everyone needed to be involved, and you know, everyone else just did what they were supposed to, and J.K. Simmons fucking carried it. So extracting, acting, I give it 3.5. Uh cinematography. And I feel like such a fucking um Neanderthal for the statement, you know, just because I'm going into it and I'm like, fellas, you do not need to abuse yourselves for jazz, okay? Um really don't. And like I'm waiting for the line where J.K. Sammons is like, look, if you go out there and do the best, you'll be performing behind the weather person tonight on the local five. And and in every elevator, the people here. And so I'm like, guys, the stakes are medium.

SPEAKER_01 23:21

You don't need to be there's dozens of fans counting on this.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

You don't need to be bleeding on the drum set. And I know that that's like, but then every every other artist out there is like, well, my art is disappearing to AI and everything like that. And I understand that. And I I get we're in this situation where we're all becoming just fucking drudge to the rich people and uh everything. So every art has its place and everything like that. It's just I'll get more into this on the golden path. It's just no lessons were learned here. So whatever your art is, I appreciate, I respect, but no, no lessons were learned here. So it no art would have been worth it. All right.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

You you can't it's it's very funny to think that every single artist that was listed there as a great had this kind of experience.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

Yeah. Well, I mean, just take take art now that the different arts that are respected or that are becoming popular. So uh like you gotta fucking, I don't know, uh, I guess uh a TikTok influencer, and there's just someone yelling at them, or it's the three of us sitting there in a um in a hall and Joe Rogan is screaming at us and throwing shit. No, this is the dumbest shit ever. Think of an anecdote. Yeah, like get the fuck out of here, man. Fuck off.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

Tell him, tell him about what your dream was last night.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

Yeah, I'm like, no, look, at the end of the day, art is ruled by the rich and their kids. So fuck off all of you. So for that, um, and I was on the score and soundtrack, sorry. But uh scoring soundtrack for that is jazz. I'm not really a fan. I had skipped. I was I was so stuck on the jazz piece. But um, yeah, I'm gonna give the score a it was good jazz. Question mark for for jazz, it was good. It was good jazz, it was good jazz. I mean, like if a hurricane was moving in and I'm trying to report it, that would be great to have fucking Miles Teller just like. So welcome to the Jazz Bashing Podcast. So for score and soundtrack, I give it a 3.5. 3.5 out of respect to the arts. Cinematography, it was competently done. I I thought like some of the the hand dipping in the ice, uh, you know, some of it belonged in a saw movie, but um yeah, the cinematography was competent, it made me feel some things. I was I was yeah, it was it was good. It was it was it was good. Uh so for that I give it a 3.5. Um you know, it was well done. Well done. 3.5 story and plot, uh, no lessons were learned here. The entire third act needs to be changed to make this work. And so for that, I give it a 2.5. Rewatchability? Fucking I'm like every family event, uh, Thanksgiving, Christmas, uh, all of them. I'm putting it on. Whiplash is in the background. I give it a five. No, I give it, I'm never gonna watch this again. I'm gonna give it a 1.5.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

If you don't get close to killing yourself to be great, then you've achieved nothing. Is the every is the lesson we need for every holiday.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah. If we lived in a world and culture where having children was possible, my children would be watching this all the time. Yeah. Um, but yeah, but we don't live in that world, and uh the best my parents can hope for are dogs. So 1.5.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

Yeah, I want you to see how much better you could have it. You wish I went as easy on you as J.K. Simmons. When he throws a chair, he misses on purpose. I didn't miss, did I?

SPEAKER_00 27:33

You're right, sir. You're right. Don't be that fucking dishwasher.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

Are you are you dr are you dragging? Or are you rushing?

SPEAKER_00 27:46

No, it gotta be on my tempo.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

Who does Fantastic Four? He was great. Uh was he in Fantastic Four? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mr. Fantastic and one of the there was a there was a Fantastic Four reboot that you skipped because Miles Date Miles Teller was the lead in that movie, and you were and we were and we were collectively the entire world was like, no.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

I don't even remember that happening. I I thought we had the three with or however, yeah, it was I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

Nope, there's a fourth one.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

Well, it was it was a couple of those pieces of shit with Chris Evans as the torch and Jessica Albans.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

Missed one in the middle, man.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

And there was uh the I thought those fucking sucked. And then you're telling me there was another one last one that kind of sucked. All right, all right, all right.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

He was awful in the divergent series, Project X terrible, the footloose remake so bad.

SPEAKER_03 29:05

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

Oh, uh Diegetic.

SPEAKER_03 29:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because they're wrong. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

For sure. It's still a linear plot, which is better than some movies.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

Yeah. Uh Rebel Moon, the newest Jurassic Park.

SPEAKER_03 29:44

Yeah. Solid. We're tough.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

I think it's generous. But uh, what do you do?

SPEAKER_03 29:53

Like this this is the other drama.

Toxic Mentors And The Suffering Myth

SPEAKER_00 29:58

This is the one that uh we're gonna be at odds with a lot of people because everyone's fucking talking about this movie like it's the I I went through Letterboxd on it, and everyone's like talking about it like it's the greatest movie of the goddamn 21st. And yeah, you're really gonna do that. No, and some people like that. Well, before we dive in, it's time for the golden path, and we gotta dive in. So it's time for our final shot, final toast, final hit. This one I don't know what it's to, but honestly, this movie.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

All those all those uh all those narcissistic megalomaniac psychopathic uh instructors out there, anybody who's in a position of power who acts like that.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

The ones who still think you're in the right. Well, they all do, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

They're megalomaniacs. That's what it is.

SPEAKER_00 30:57

Yeah. So here's to you, but in a negative way. I hope you fucking die. Cheers.

SPEAKER_01 31:03

Cheers. I like what you said, Luke, about your favorite movie. Rewatchability is part of it. Can it really be your favorite movie if you don't want to watch it a bunch of times? It's like, yeah, that's the difference between it being a good movie and a favorite movie. Because like I think I think Schindler's List is uh is a great movie. I would be worried, yeah. Yeah, that's problematic.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

Yeah. Why exactly?

SPEAKER_01 31:33

Yeah. Why?

SPEAKER_00 31:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:38

Your favorite? What's your what's your what's your favorite part of Schindler's? Explain.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

Explain. You you'd be forced on it.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

I like when all the bodies are in a pit.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

That's what I thought. That's what I thought.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

I like when the little girl says, goodbye, Jews.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

Jesus Christ. Well, but this this movie here, it there's it and again, like I uh none of us, I mean Luke at least, uh James, you hadn't made it back on to on yet, but we didn't realize how old this movie fucking was. 2014, right? 2014. And I mean, a lot's changed since then, obviously. But the concept, and what's weird about this one, you know, me, uh, you know, because I did do I did do orchestra, and eventually I went to school in Chicago for writing, uh like creative writing, all that sort of thing. So I did do art schools, and I, you know, I was a young artist, and there was at that time, especially for me, what, that was 2010, this concept of you have to suffer, you have to be broken, otherwise your art will never be anything, it's just boring and blh. That was a that was a very popular concept, and what this movie should have done at that time in 2014 was break that down and show like that's not required um to make something at all. Um, that it's not required. You know, uh especially, you know what's gonna be wild in this modern age, especially, is that Miles Teller is gonna go through all that hell. He's gonna do his drumming, he's gonna bleed on the drum kit, right? And then someone is gonna like be playing the drums and fart at the right time with the right background music on TikTok and immediately jump the the ship on that. And it's like, what was that suffering for? The suffering was like well.

SPEAKER_01 33:50

Let me tell you what the movie says it's for. The movie itself, uh uh, all of those musicians, like their goal is to go on to be like professional musicians, right? Uh which J.K. Simmons, JK Simmons fucking brushes them off as like nobodies in a conversation. He's like, Yeah, they've got me with a pro pro band, and he's like, that's great. And he's like, it's fine. And it's like, doesn't he doesn't name any of the players in the pro band or whatever? That's the most that these people could hope for by being like top of this conservatory or whatever, is to be professional paid musicians. And it's like, and and it's fighting over nothing. All of that hard work and suffering is for something that that he doesn't even respect, that he also ends up doing is he's in the pro-band, right? Like it's very it's very funny. It's very funny. This like forced hierarchy that that uh that all these people, anybody who's out there like, I need to be the greatest, I need to fucking suffer to be the greatest, to be the top of the pyramid, and and treat other people. I people treated me like shit when I was at the bottom, and so now that I'm up a wrong, I treat that person like shit until I'm at the top, and I'll treat them all like shit. Yeah. And like all of that is just to get to a totally like unrest no respect or fame or or or glory or money or anything. Yeah. He said he never did. He said he never did, which is so funny. It's funny on a second level. But what it didn't even work.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

What's wild is the people what like this this was the male black swan.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

And yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

But what no like none of the people That's a black gander. Black gander, and none of the people watching it, none of the people writing it, none of them, in my opinion, here, because the lesson wasn't learned, realized that they're all fucking wrong. The the holes in their argument existed throughout the movie, but I don't think they truly realized the holes were there.

unknown 36:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

Um otherwise, the entire third act would have been different.

SPEAKER_01 36:16

Yeah. It was really funny in the first the first time they played on stage, like the auditorium was only had half the people in it. I thought that was also very funny.

SPEAKER_00 36:26

And no, and I I I was going through the letterboxes and you know, I was just kind of looking after the fact and seeing that people worship this film still and see it as like some uh brazen unspoken truth when no, you are wrong. You are all not getting the fucking point.

SPEAKER_01 36:47

Yeah, I think the movie had more to say, but it did a bad job of telling telling people what it was. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:57

Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

Well, and the the this way of thinking was pervasive. Like it didn't come out of nowhere. J.K. Simmons, uh, his character, was not the first guy to come up with this fucking concept, and it was so prevalent, and it's I think it still is prevalent in our culture. I remember going to school, an art school in Chicago for writing, and it was so pervasive in my head that like what they're teaching is fucking bullshit, it's nonsense. I'm doing this because you know, United States and my high school teachers require me to get a college degree, blah, blah, blah, blah. But what's really gonna do it is life experiences that hurt me. And as I got older, the only thing I learned, like, because I did. I I did get all the like the those life experiences that I wanted as a kid. And all those terrible life experiences taught me was that it sucks to be poor, it's awesome to be rich, it fucking sucks to be homeless, it's awesome to have a like it's it taught me fucking it sucks to be emotionally unstable, stability is really great, stability's awesome, healthy is the way to go. That is all those experiences taught me. Um, was that good is good and bad is bad. But uh and so though those things were there. It was like this whole concept that like in order for art to be created, you have to suffer, and that's just not true. It is simply not true, and that what this movie is truly lacking is that it refused to finally stand up and say that out loud.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

Yeah. At the end, it was like these two fucking crazy bastards found each other and it worked out.

SPEAKER_03 38:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

That dude's not gonna be a famous drummer. There's no way that dude is going to be a best of all time drummer. I'm never gonna hear of that guy. The most of the most of the artists they mentioned didn't know who they were. I knew I knew like three of the of three names of all the names they listed of famous musicians, and I did not go and look up anymore, and I never will.

SPEAKER_00 39:18

There are two options to make that part three better. Well, I'll save that for the next piece. We're in the golden.

SPEAKER_01 39:26

Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, well, I have more to say for golden path. I know we've been I know we've been on some shit uh a little, but I had I had a lot to say uh during this. Please. No, that's all, never mind.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

I'm looking through my notes. I think we I think we covered it. Hierarchies, bad, people just trying to climb on top of each other to shit on the lowest level. Yeah, uh young people don't understand perspective that comes with living a long life. And Paul Reisler actually calls that out in the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 39:59

Yes, but then it went nowhere.

SPEAKER_01 40:02

That's true. He's still young, but but that was the thing, is it he you think he's gaining perspective when he calls up Nicole, right? You think he you think he's gaining perspective when he calls up Nicole, but he he ends up not. Uh, but that's the thing Paul Reiser was talking about is like all of this and all of working, you know, deciding what you're working towards and stuff, it's just you just don't have the perspective to know what's good and what's healthy and what you actually want. And uh and and Miles Teller is still struggling still struggle.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

Well, I mean, like regrettably, I think that is the curse of the millennial, especially, is that we That's all youth. Well, but I mean it's worse because we all we had was boomers and Gen X giving us this bullshit. We didn't have their perspective, but their perspective was fucking J.K. Simmons.

SPEAKER_01 41:01

I mean, if if you think about it, yes, we have mass media that reached all of us, but before that, it was just your small town and whatever the dickhead in the small town, you know, it was it was all this these same dickheads ran every small town America and shit. And that's that's what everyone was dealing with.

Inserting Ourselves Into Whiplash

SPEAKER_00 41:17

Well, we're still waiting for them to give up the fucking housing market, but uh anyway, so it's time now to insert ourselves into this film. So, um, fellas, how does this movie change with you involved? James, you being able to smell the fucking room they were in, I feel you should start this one.

SPEAKER_01 41:40

I should start, okay, yeah. So as you know, yeah, like I said, I played baritone euphonium. So let's say that I'm in the room. Uh so uh he seems really focused on the drummers. Uh I would have stood up for I would have stood up for my trombone bro, who he was berating the first time. I would have been like, no, that B flat is like in tune. I knew immediately that that B flat was in tune. And I was like, he wasn't out of tune. And uh uh baritone is the same exact scale as the trombone, we're the same tonal range. So I would have stood up for my trombone bro. And uh and I would have uh I would have made JK Simmons back down. Yeah, yeah. And then I think during that during that uh scene where I would of course been on drugs. I would have been I would have been chill. I would have been smoking weed. I would have shared some weed with with Miles Teller. He would have chilled out a little bit. I would have I would have uh slipped a little bit of um of acid into uh into Fletcher's uh I don't know, was Fletcher drink? It didn't we didn't see him consume anything for most of the movie until he got to that bar. I don't know what I'd I'd I'd I'd put I'd put acid on his conductor stick. But uh but I think during that scene when Miles Teller ran in from the car crash and it was all bloody and shit and started playing, and then he cut it off. I would have been so surprised that I would have uh accidentally uh swallowed my mouthpiece and I would have choked to death on stage after swallowing my big my big nickel-coated mouthpiece as it was vibrating in my in my throat and I would have died. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He would have got to he would have got to stay in the he would have forgot all about him. Actually, he wouldn't have. He didn't care about the death of any of his students. I would have got 30 seconds at the beginning of next class.

SPEAKER_00 43:47

But it it was that scene where he plays the music of his dead student, where they tried to humanize him. That is where I knew that the writers and everyone involved in this film thought that J.K. Simmons was the good guy.

SPEAKER_01 44:04

I don't know if that's true. It at that point, we I mean, because we find out that none of that was true, you know, that he was using it as a manipulation tactic, that that student didn't die in a Car accident. He wasn't crushed by it. He was like using it as a manipulation tactic, like what you do here lives on, and I'll always remember you. This was six years ago, I'll always remember you. And uh and we we shall he was great and which would have been impactful if fucking J.K.

SPEAKER_00 44:33

Simmons learned anything at the end.

SPEAKER_01 44:35

Yeah, like I think I think that I think the movie purposefully was saying that that was a lie, and he's not like that, and he's a psycho, and he's like manipulated. Like I think the movie had more to say, but it wasn't clear enough. And it wasn't clear enough, and it made audience it's like the Paul Verhoven conversations we have. Where but but I still love Paul Verhoven in this movie, I just thought it was meh. I think Miles Teller like ruined this movie.

SPEAKER_00 45:01

Yeah. Well, uh Luke, you're me.

SPEAKER_03 45:05

Alright.

SPEAKER_01 45:06

Does anyone try to revive me? Anybody have healing words? After a long rest. Yeah, he didn't say shit to the trumpets. They were the a lot of them were black.

SPEAKER_03 45:25

I know, right?

SPEAKER_01 45:32

Well, it wouldn't be much longer, but yeah, life for sure. My life wouldn't A baritone mouthpiece is like that big, so it'd be really difficult to get it out of my throat. It's like it's fucking huge, dude. It's so huge. It's not like a trump. Trumpets are like tiny.

SPEAKER_03 45:51

Yeah. Okay. Okay. Superco. Yeah. And try to like most jazz bands.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

All right, all right. Me, I'm gonna change this movie fucking drastically. And I have I have a four. Did you say drastically?

SPEAKER_01 46:14

Are we getting dinosaurs? Yeah. So a velocirant bursts in and fucking kills us all. No, it it it plays whiplash perfectly. Oh my god. First try.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

Infinitely better, infinitely better than the Scarlet Johansson one. We just hijack the 2014 whiplash, but with Velociraptors. And then there's just jazz. With feathers now. But I mean for for option one, I'm gonna be Miles Teller, and I'm gonna I'm gonna give my I'm gonna give my fucking all, realize he's abusive, I'm gonna rat him out to the board, get his ass fired, and then instead of us having this moment on stage where we realize that this is what we needed to do, you needed to be abusive to unlock my potential, we're just gonna cut to 20 years later, where me being a good drummer who stayed in a healthy relationship and practiced my art and all those sorts of things, I got a job as a professional musician. I'm paid for it. Me and my girlfriend have kids, we're happy, and I see J.K. Simmons um like with his fucking hat out on the side of the street looking for me to put, and I'll put like five bucks in there, and then I'll slap him on time. Option two, wearing the Velociraptor now. Yeah, where's it? Option two is that I go down the abusive mentor rabbit hole, and then instead of that insane drum solo at the end, me and J.K. Simmons just start fucking on stage. Um, and we get into a huge, like abusive relationship. Um he continues his dark narcissism in this relationship. I wind up dead, he winds up in prison, but at least the fucking audience learns something. And uh that's and uh yeah, and the whole time I'm gonna like occasionally look over at you guys who have formed a healthy jazz band and think of what could have been as I suffer through this psychosexual relationship with J.K. Simmons that eventually leads to my death and his. So yeah, I go for two. At least someone fucking learned something. Um and we and and I'll use a prosthetic. Um J.K. Simmons will actually show his penis, and uh it's it's gonna it's gonna be a wild movie. It's gonna be a wild movie. Yeah, it's gonna it's gonna blow the critics out of the water, hands down.

SPEAKER_01 49:12

So I I looked it up, I have confirmed that the end of the movie was meant to be tragic, but it wasn't clear enough. No, no, it's audio. I don't think audiences totally understand. Yeah, that he was broken at the end of it, and that it was a that it that the ending was tragic instead of yeah. But all great people are cons all all all people are concerned when the great sacrifice themselves for their art, and then these concerned people are idiots.

SPEAKER_00 49:43

Yeah. No, it was not clear enough. It was not clear enough whatsoever. No, no, it it to me that could have just as easily been construed as he's gonna go off to be the greatest jazz musician of all time, catapulting, and I will never have heard of him. It catapults jazz back into the minds and televisions of everyone at home. Like, no.

SPEAKER_01 50:13

I think the audience is supposed to be that girl, Nicole. I think, and he's like, and he's like, this is blah blah blah, jazz. Like, and we're all just kind of sitting there eating pizza, like, okay. I thought that was really I thought that was really funny on that pizza date. Where he's like, he's like, the music's great, the jazz, this is blah blah blah. And she's like, uh, all right, the pizza's really good.

SPEAKER_00 50:38

No, I recognize that look on her face as she sort of looked off, and she's that was the look of I wish he was just into Warhammer.

SPEAKER_01 50:47

Yeah, yeah. Like this guy, this guy, it's like being into like penny farthing bicycles or something. It's something really antiquated. It's like, why? This is oh my god, what have I gotten myself into? This guy has this guy's gonna tell me about shit that that hasn't mattered for 80 years.

SPEAKER_00 51:08

Well, there you have it, folks. Jazz hasn't mattered for 80 years. You heard it here first. You heard it here first. I'm I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It is what it is.

SPEAKER_01 51:19

Everything jazz is dead, long live jazz.

SPEAKER_00 51:23

Jazz is dead, long live jazz. I'm your host, Ryan Barron North. With me as always, James Crosslin, Luke. Thank you everybody for listening. Follow us wherever podcasts are fucking free or whatever. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 51:34

All right, goodbye. Were you rushing or were you dragging?